|By abandoning the name of Christ and replaced it with|
the Catholic name which is just an INVENTED name, we
are quite certain that the APOSTASY is working
to this very day.
You said "With your long response, you failed to answer the question or substantiate your interpretation of your so called Apostasy Doctrine "in" the bible. "
Oh but I did dearest. Its not my fault if you can't accept the truth regarding the Apostasy. If you VALUE the TRUTH that is being RELAYED by the bible then it won't be that hard for you to understand. That the APOSTASY was indeed FORTOLD by the APOSTLEs.
By the way dearest I don't do interpretation as you Catholics are so eager to do. Its NOT ALLOWED. My stand is simply SUBSTANTIATED by what the apostles already FORTOLD regarding the APOSTASY. That simple for its WRITTEN in the bible.
So I really didn't fail dear. That would be you. You failed to disprove any of my statements based on what the scriptures teachings. Do remember dearest if you comment and use the term "FAIL" do understand dearest you LIKEWISE need to SUBSTANTIATE what you say. Not just dishing out your opinionated misconceptions about what is being discussed
For regarding the APOSTASY. whether you accept it or not that doctrine dearest is well KNOWN to the TRUE FOLLOWERs. So we really should not be surprise you obviously cannot accept it. Here let me SUBSTANTIATE my point. Is there really an APOSTASY taught by the APOSTLEs?
"Let no one deceive or beguile you in any way, for that day will not come except the APOSTASY COMES FIRST...," (II thess. 2:3 amplified bible)
Well, what do you know. There is an APOSTASY. And it COMES FIRST before the coming of the Lord. Do read that verse dear start from verse 1 so you can EASILY RELATE to what I am sharing to you.
Lets continue dearest Ryan, you said "...you need to establish the fact that it has truly occurred, that said prophesy had been realized. Hence at the end of the day, you need to show proof that it actually happened. That is precisely the reason why Catholics ask you and your ministers, how and when (was the Church Apostasy became Universal, Complete and Definitive)? "
Proof? but of course dearest. Do read my post again. I need not establish the fact for it PLAINLY is AN ESTABLISHED FACT that your MENTORs ABANDONED the name of CHRIST and replaced it with the CATHOLIC name.
So if you would like to REFUTE this dear then you need to ESTABLISHED your FACTs if indeed that this did not occur. Before you go on accusing me of your humorous misconceptions. At the end of the day you NEED to SHOW your BASIS why we should believe your seemingly misguided style of reasoning.
Didn't you know that your mentors themselves TESTIFY and SUBSTANTIATE my point that the TRUE name of the church that Jesus Christ founded is the CHURCH OF CHRIST. But was later ABANDONED and REPLACED with an INVENTED NAME. Here dearest let me share what your mentors attested.
“’Catholic’ is the ancient name by which the CHURCH OF CHRIST has been known for nineteen centuries, this name was given to her not for reasons of controversy, to prove something, but because it identifies her uniquely. It was first used by St. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch in Syria...It was stress the unity of the universal Church that St. Ignatius INVENTED THE NAME.” (Roman Catholic, Rev. Edward Taylor, p.3)
So its not really that hard to accept that the APOSTASY that the APOSTLE fortold had INDEED OCCURRED without a DOUBT.
Now with regards to your point on "a UNIVERSAL, COMPLETE AND DEFINITIVE Apostasy". Do take note dearest that the bible is not based on WHAT you NEED or WANT to HEAR but WHAT is GOING TO OCCUR with regards to the APOSTASY.
The Bible is not based on what you THINK it should be but WHAT IT SIMPLY STATEs. That there is INDEED an APOSTASY.
As most Catholics defenders you would naturally like to question the truth of the APOSTASY instead of ACCEPTING it. You would like to think that the this could not have happened on the ENTIRE church.
But look again dearest IT DID. Your mentors ABANDONED the NAME of CHRIST in its ENTIRETY. The very name that the true followers were called into. And likewise attested by your mentors as the name PRIOR to the CATHOLIC name.
Hence at the end of the day we find that the true name of Jesus church he founded is the CHURCH OF CHRIST. That s the name of the church Jesus founded.
By ABANDONING the TRUE NAME we DEFINITELY can say that the APOSTASY indeed HAPPENED without a DOUBT. The ENTIRE CHURCH previously KNOWN to be the CHURCH OF CHRIST was ABANDONED and REPLACED with an INVENTED name NEVER taught by the APOSTLES. Thats why when we ask CATHOLICs where can we find in the bible this name. No catholic could ever point a DEFINITE and clear answer.
Which is not really that surprising as your mentor clearly attested that the CATHOLIC NAME is an INVENTED name. No DOUBT about that.
Not even the greek version can prove it to be so. which you catholics were MISLED to believe.
So on the how of the apostasy thats already established fact for it occurred most DEFINITELY. We won't even dwell on the DISTORTED teaching of infant baptism, practice of the rosary, the need for statues and images for praying and worshipping, purgatory, calling the priest FATHER instead of BROTHER, those kind of HERESY's to which you may ask why.
Because the APOSTLEs nor Christ ever taught of what you catholics are now practicing.
Ryan said "You cannot avoid this question if you are to justify the realization of a prophesy. You have to prove that it occurred. And if it occurred, you should know when and how. If you cannot prove it, then it only means two things: 1. the prophesy remains a prophesy and 2. you have a wrong interpretation of the biblical prophesy."
We never avoid this question dear. it is usually avoided by catholics who have NEVER been confronted by this teaching. You didn't think your the first catholic i ever confronted this issue now do you? Most of you simply could not ACCEPT it. but when they are confronted with the scriptures they go on to what you Catholics normally would go to. On the promise of Jesus Christ.
To which we have no problems at all. For the promise of Jesus are for those who will stand by His teachings to the end. So even if they die. They will LIVE come JUDGEMENT DAY.
The bible proves that there is indeed an APOSTASY. On when that be is WHEN the APOSTLEs had LEFT.
The ONES who will come AFTER the APOSTLEs is CLEARLY stated by apostle Paul.
Acts 20:29-30 "29 I know that AFTER I LEAVE, SAVAGE WOLVES will come in AMONG YOU and WILL NOT SPARE the FLOCK. 30 Even FROM YOUR OWN NUMBER MEN will arise and DISTORT THE TRUTH in order to draw away disciples after them."
when will these SAVAGE WOLVEs come? of MEN who will RISE and DISTORT THE TRUTH?
Apostle Paul said " AFTER I LEAVE, SAVAGE WOLVES will come in AMONG YOU ..."
Where will they COME? Paul said "AMONG YOU"
What will they DO? Paul DEFINITELY said: "DISTORT THE TRUTH "
So on the WHEN dear regarding the APOSTASY. Paul DEFINITELY stated that this would OCCUR AFTER THEY LEAVE. Which is not SURPRISING.
Thats when the APOSTASY would OCCUR as CLEARLY ATTESTED by the apostles dearest. No DOUBT about that. However you may plead.
For at the end of the day when the APOSTLEs had LEFT. That is WHEN these SAVAGE WOLVEs will come. They will DISTORT THE TRUTH.
For those who stood by the TRUTH and REFUSED to accept the DISTORTED TRUTH. Will they be SPARED by these SAVAGE WOLVEs?
I go by what Apostle Paul clearly STATED: "SAVAGE WOLVES will come in AMONG YOU and WILL NOT SPARE the FLOCK"
Take note dearest I do not interpret based on your misguided understanding, So we KNOW who CAME AFTER the APOSTLEs now don't we?
The church who BRAGs about APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION. The one who ABANDONED the name of Christ for an INVENTED NAME.
Apostle Paul DEFINITELY said that AFTER HE LEAVEs thats WHEN the SAVAGE WOLVEs would come.
So it is with out a DOUBT that the ones who SUCCEEDED the APOSTLEs are the MEN WHO WILL DISTORT THE TRUTH and the SAVAGE WOLVES who will NOT SPARE THE FLOCK.
That is the TRUTH the apostles have known so well as also as with the TRUE FOLLOWERs then.. And now like the INC. No doubt about.
So in turn allow me to ASK YOU dearest. Who SUCCEEDED the APOSTLEs after THEY LEFT?
Surely that would be easy for you dearest. You really didn't think we AVOIDED those questions on the APOSTASY now do you?
So lets make it DEFINITE dear. I've answered your points of concern. Answer me on the said question "Who SUCCEEDED the APOSTLEs after THEY LEFT?"
So after the end of the day we may know who among us ACCEPTs the TRUTH WRITTEN in the SCRIPTUREs dearest.
We continue. Ryan said "FYI, since our Church produced and owns the Bible, we are aware of that apostasy prophesy."
Really dearest? Sorry but i don't think so. First let me correct you on your wrong misconception that you own the bible. You don't dear. The teachings in the bible didn't came from you or your mentors dearest. So get your facts straight.
We do however know that many bible translations where indeed made by catholic biblical scholars.
Unfortunately, it seems you are UNAWARE that although catholics produced and translated the bible. They NEVER ABIDE to its TRUE TEACHINGs. Like DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.
Where in the bible is the CATHOLIC NAME dear? give me an ENGLISH translation dearest. Lets see if you are AWARE of it. Unless you abide by teachings NEVER WRITTEN in the scriptures. Now that would be another evidence of the APOSTASY. don't you think. So make my day dear. Find me the verse and lets see if you are aware of what you are standing on. Surely you would stand by the bible and not just man made teachings when it comes to SALVATION.
Or where did the Apostles or Christ teach of using statues and images for worshipping. Give me a verse that the apostles did what you are now doing.